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-   -   Carburetor Rebuild - Butterflies stuck (http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35678)

CWLindeman 03-03-2012 10:25 PM

Carburetor Rebuild - Butterflies stuck
 
I was amazed to get this 79XS1100SF with only 6K miles. However, It hasnt been run since 1985, maybe 1984. It was stored with fuel in the tank, so I undertook the rebuild, along with corroded electrical, but enough about that.

On to the issue:
I've managed to painstakingly work out all the varnish, which practically painted the thing shut. The rebuild kit is here (ordered from eBay). Now my only issue is that the butterflies wouldn't open at all. I've sprayed the hell out of it with PB Blaster and worked it pretty hard up and down. Now they move with much less force, but the return spring is still not shutting the valves.
Is there somewhere specific that I should be lubricating; or should I keep working it back and forth? I've never taken a carb apart until now and I think I've done pretty good with this one, but the sticking throttle is the only thing that's really keeping me from getting this on the road (and waiting for the new TCI to come in- scheduled Monday or Tuesday).

More specifically, the throttle lever (where the cable attaches) is what I'm referring to.

Schming 03-04-2012 12:18 AM

Welcome Neighbor
 
Watch how much PB you use on this area of the carbs as there are rubber butterfly shaft seals that may not withstand the harsness of the solvents.
You may want to try some silicon spray lubricant. HTH

SFerinTEXAS 03-04-2012 01:47 AM

The thought off possibly unmolested 79 special carbs makes me drool with envy. ;);););););)

In regards to your specific question I suppose carb spray would be my suggestion. Having busted my cherry on these carbs a long time ago ,with less than stellar results I must say, I hope you've done due research on this site on the subject. Will greatly increase the odds of successful results .

My approach to carb rebuilding now bears little resemblance to my first attempt. I wish this site had existed then. Good Luck

BA80 03-04-2012 05:53 AM

Try soaking them in some fresh gasoline. Gasoline will dissolve the varnish.;)

Your other choice is to further disassemble by removing the plates and pulling the shafts out.

Gas should work. Choose a well ventilated area away from any pilot lights or anything like that.

CWLindeman 03-04-2012 11:37 AM

I am unable to get the rail that holds the carbs together off of them to get to all the slides. I'll try the silicone first, then, if that doesn't work, I"ll soak in gasoline (with the diaphragm assembly still apart).

When it comes to the slide needle attached to the diaphragm assembly, how do I remove the slide needle, so that I may replace it (one of them is loose)?

This site has been a wealth of information. 2 days until this bike is whole again. I can't wait to be back on the road, even though it seems a late snow is rearing its ugly head.

I'll be sure to add some pics when I've reassembled the bike. Other than a little oxidation on the chrome, its in impeccable condition.

natemoen 03-04-2012 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CWLindeman (Post 360147)
I am unable to get the rail that holds the carbs together off of them to get to all the slides. I'll try the silicone first, then, if that doesn't work, I"ll soak in gasoline (with the diaphragm assembly still apart).

When it comes to the slide needle attached to the diaphragm assembly, how do I remove the slide needle, so that I may replace it (one of them is loose)?

This site has been a wealth of information. 2 days until this bike is whole again. I can't wait to be back on the road, even though it seems a late snow is rearing its ugly head.

I'll be sure to add some pics when I've reassembled the bike. Other than a little oxidation on the chrome, its in impeccable condition.

Use some heat to help remove the screws that hold the carbs onto the rail.

The slide needles should move some. There is a spring sitting on top of the needle to allow some movement. So it is the 3 that do not move that are gummed up and need the attention. There is a C clip down inside the slide tube that needs to be removed and that will allow the needles to be removed.

BA80 03-04-2012 11:59 AM

Nate is right about the needles, they should all be loose and you should be able to pull them down a bit from the diaphragm slide and they will be pulled back in by the springs.

You shouldn't have to separate the carbs unless your going to pull the butterfly shafts out. Just strip them down and put all the bodies in the gas all together. It won't hurt anything.

Work the butterfies while your soaking them and they should loosen up and wash out the varnish.

As I said before, do this in a well ventalated area away from anything that could possibly ignite the fumes. Outside would be best.

Don't want you burnin' down bro'.;)

natemoen 03-04-2012 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BA80 (Post 360150)
they should all be loose and you should be able to pull them down a bit from the diaphragm slide and they will be pulled back in by the springs.

Now I could be wrong here BUT I think that the early carbs the spring goes on top of the needle and the spring pushes the needle down and not up.

BA80 03-04-2012 12:15 PM

Your wrong.

natemoen 03-04-2012 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BA80 (Post 360155)
Your wrong.

Prove it to me :cool:

BA80 03-04-2012 12:30 PM

Well Nate, I have 8 slides in my carb parts bin that tell me your wrong and 2 banks on the bikes I have that tell me your wrong and one extra bank of carbs I rebuilt that tell me your wrong. All of the 78-79 style.

Prove them wrong.http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s.../happy0034.gif

jetmechmarty 03-04-2012 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CWLindeman (Post 360147)
I am unable to get the rail that holds the carbs together off of them to get to all the slides.

I'll be sure to add some pics when I've reassembled the bike. Other than a little oxidation on the chrome, its in impeccable condition.

http://www.mikesxs.net/parts/img250/35-0095.jpg

The impact driver is what you need to remove the rail. Replace the cross point screws with allen head screws.

I look forward to the pics. Go after the chrome with a wad of aluminum foil and some water. Follow up with chrome polish.

BA80 03-04-2012 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jetmechmarty (Post 360163)
The impact driver is what you need to remove the rail. Replace the cross point screws with allen head screws.


+1 on that. I replaced all those stupid phillips heads with allens. They had it going good with the allens in the cases and then went and put phillips in the carbs.

CWLindeman 03-05-2012 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BA80 (Post 360123)
Try soaking them in some fresh gasoline. Gasoline will dissolve the varnish.;)

Your other choice is to further disassemble by removing the plates and pulling the shafts out.

Gas should work. Choose a well ventilated area away from any pilot lights or anything like that.

i have them soaking in a 5 gallon bucket (on the deck for safety- thanks BA80). when i get done work at 6am, ill try working them loose. i wish i had known gasoline would remove the varnish. i would have saved a few bucks there. new tires ordered today, expected by Friday. im a little anxious about this rebuild, now that i made my MBSR hotel reservations. Getting this running PROPERLY is key.

can anyone reccomend a removable windshield? last year i was so fatigued from the wind tearing on my half-helmet, i swore to never undertake a 5+hour trip without a windshield ever again. i would prefer to take it off once i reach my hotel. any reccomendations are appreciated.

I guess after the new TCI comes and the carbs are done, ill mount the backrest and get ready for new saddle bags. a little early to worry about such things, but i want this trip to go off as smooth as possible from the start. maybe ill just rig it up kinda half-assed packing and buy my bags there for super-cheap.

BA80 03-05-2012 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CWLindeman (Post 360327)
i wish i had known gasoline would remove the varnish.

The varnish is just the residue left by the evaporated gas. The reason it's not widely used is it's so flammable and dangerous, that's why I added the precaution. Please be careful.



Quote:

Originally Posted by CWLindeman (Post 360327)
can anyone reccomend a removable windshield? last year i was so fatigued from the wind tearing on my half-helmet, i swore to never undertake a 5+hour trip without a windshield ever again. i would prefer to take it off once i reach my hotel. any reccomendations are appreciated.

There are several universal windshields available. They are, well mine is, easy to remove and you can just leave the mounts on the bike. I got my street shied from JC Whitney. Here's a pic......

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s...7-10951128.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s...7-11951802.jpg

motoman 03-05-2012 05:37 PM

BA80 is correct in saying the rail does NOT have to be removed to remove the caps off the top of the vacuum diaphrams. He is also correct with the spring location for the needle retainers. I would advise not seperating the carbs, unless they are known for sure to be totally wacked internally. Doing this will require a whole array of new pieces(o-rings,etc.) and a new language learned.

CWLindeman 03-05-2012 05:44 PM

i'm always careful around petrochemicals. i've got 3K gallons of diesel behind me atm. nonetheless i thank you for the concern. the windshield you have looks to fit well and seems clean w the lines of the bike. i'm going to check JC Whitney and price it. this is becoming a more expensive project than i anticipated, but the only NEEED as of now is the air filter.

I really like the king/queen seat you have there. I had one on my '80cb750k and it was nice for the long hauls. Maybe I'll look into one for the XS later in the year. For now, I'll settle with my backrest.

BA80 03-05-2012 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CWLindeman (Post 360334)
but the only NEEED as of now is the air filter.

Whitney has those too. I've got the reusable foam Unifilter in both my scoots.


Quote:

Originally Posted by CWLindeman (Post 360334)
I really like the king/queen seat you have there. I had one on my '80cb750k and it was nice for the long hauls. Maybe I'll look into one for the XS later in the year. For now, I'll settle with my backrest.

Thank you CW. Everybody else gives me crap about that seat.:( Yes, it is great to tie stuff on for long trips. I have a pillow I always take along for a backrest. :cool:

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s...1023111424.jpg

CaptonZap 03-05-2012 09:22 PM

[quote=BA80;360336] Thank you CW. Everybody else gives me crap about that seat.:( Yes, it is great to tie stuff on for long trips. I have a pillow I always take along for a backrest. :cool:

QUOTE]

It's not the seat Greg, it's the skid mark down the center. :D:p








Well, maybe it is the seat, a little. :rolleyes:
:D CZ

rs2289 11-15-2012 06:59 PM

Hey all. I am having this same problem. Soaking them in a off the shelf bucket carb cleaner because they are really bad. I was wonder how you did with those carbs soaking in Gas. My #1 carb is so stuck at this point it doesn't move at all. I would rather not have to buy a second set of carbs and piece them together, but it looks like that is something I will have to do.

natemoen 11-15-2012 07:18 PM

You might as well buy new shaft seals now and just replace them, that will solve all the problems.

Often times those gallon cams of carb dip will ruin (more rhan they already are) old shaft seals and cause air leaked.

rs2289 11-15-2012 08:06 PM

Yeah I was thinking I may have to get new seals. :eek: There is other issues with this set of carbs I got that I need to soak them for. This is going to be a completely new carb set by the time I get done. Grrr. Alas, I love doing it.

Rasputin 11-15-2012 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by natemoen (Post 360156)
Prove it to me :cool:

Not proof but yup you are wrong. No smileys on edit function sucks

natemoen 11-16-2012 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rasputin (Post 394998)
Not proof but yup you are wrong. No smileys on edit function sucks

This was the thread that made me fund the one last Issue that was the cause of my problems. Those springs being on the wrong side of the needl made the bike run like crap! And now she runs great!


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