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  #16  
Old 08-13-2012, 05:44 PM
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LoHo LoHo is offline
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Just so you know, the bike will run (sort of) when off by a tooth or two, but it sounds like hell.

Before you proceed, do as others have suggested and take the valve cover off so that you can have a look at the timing, which is well described in the manual. Be careful about doing any rotating until you see what you've got going on in there.

We've all learned how to work on these and other bikes by screwing something up and trying to fix it. You can do it, just take your time and ask if something you don't understand comes up. This is an incredible resource for XS1100 information and usually almost as quick as a phone call.
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  #17  
Old 08-13-2012, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Majortomxx View Post
Little update...

So, from what I've read so far. I should take the valve cover off, remove the cams, reset the cam timing and see if I can rotate the engine CW. Encountering resistance means a valve is contacting a piston and I get to behead my bike?

Or, remove the cams. Where the cams ought to be, put two sections of pipe to allow the chain to slide over while maintaining tension and do a compression test?
Hey MajorTom,

After Viper's comments, I would suggest doing what he said with regards to testing the compression, but this is just a FINGER FEEL compression test, not a formal test with a gauge, especially once the cams are removed. The valves will not be opening/closing so you can not do an actual real compression test. His technique to just see if each cylinder will create compression while you have the cams out, but before you put them back in. This way IF you don't have compression on 1 or more cylinders, then you KNOW you'll need to pull the head, and you won't have to bother putting the cams back in at this time...will save you some wrenching time and effort.

But IF you can feel compression...your finger being blown albeit gently away from the plug hole on all 4 cylinders, then the valves are probably sealing adequately, and you can then reinstall the cams and there's a good chance you'll have proper/normal compression once the cams are all timed up, and you have installed an ACCT....or your oem one once you've verified that the threads for the locking/securing bolt are not stripped in the CCT housing, so that you'll know that the bolt will hold the tensioner/plunger properly once the bolt is set/torqued to the right amount, then locked by the lock nut.

I'm still running my oem CCT, but I'll be looking at making a MANUAL one in the near future. Read up on the ACCT for pros and cons of it, vs. a good designed manual one with a more proper/secure locking method to the plunger.

T.C.
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  #18  
Old 08-13-2012, 07:14 PM
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Confirmed believer in ACCT

I would go ahead and install the ACCT on the bike. I personally had no intent of doing it until May when I was at real high RPM in 3rd and just backed off the throttle. Afterward the valve train sounded a little noisy so I checked the adjustment and I am sure mine slipped not enough to jump a tooth but the chain gained slack. I am sure it was tight beforehand so I have lost faith in the standard unit.
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  #19  
Old 08-13-2012, 08:31 PM
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Here's the tip for the MANUAL MOD version of the CCT, and you can find the one for the ACCT in the same forum...Mods, engine.

http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35497
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  #20  
Old 08-13-2012, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ViperRon View Post
I would go ahead and install the ACCT on the bike. I personally had no intent of doing it until May when I was at real high RPM in 3rd and just backed off the throttle. Afterward the valve train sounded a little noisy so I checked the adjustment and I am sure mine slipped not enough to jump a tooth but the chain gained slack. I am sure it was tight beforehand so I have lost faith in the standard unit.
Good choice for ALL who run these scoots. Don't even have to at a really high RPM backin' off on compression. Loads the front side of chain and that stock WaltDisneyDesigned adjuster set screw will NOT hold it from slipping back, even if it is ever so slightly.........then down the road several hundred miles soundin' like it needs another adjustment a bit sooner than expected. A quick rev on the centerstand a few yrs. back answered that question for me when a quick blip of the throttle and decel kicked it back enough the chain was hittin' the case. When tightening down the stock tensioner set bolt and lock nut, it's a crap shoot at best whether it holds or not. Problem is first off the cast alum. housing won't stand the side stress to correctly tighten a lock bolt. Second, the set bolt is incorrectly made on the bottom to act even close to being a set screw. Thirdly, holding the set bolt and tightening the lock nut pulls the set bolts load ever so lightly from the flat shaft base, removing some of the needed pressure. Hell, even the first cycle mag. test on these in 78 at the track had an adjuster slip first crack out of the box. Shoulda' told mother Yammy something then instead of just sweeping it under the rug as a flute and continuing till model ended in 84. So.....we all know the adjuster is a POS........and your not gonna defeat it..........so just change it out for an auto adjuster and be done with it.
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  #21  
Old 08-13-2012, 10:20 PM
Majortomxx Majortomxx is offline
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Got the valve cover off to see how much chain I've got to work with. I removed the old CCT. I removed the chain guide between the cams and held the chain up with some thick metal wire.

I'm at a stage where I need to start thinking of a way to remove the cams. Some more advice on what to do here would be helpful. I was able to pull up some slack without the CCT and guide, though not enough to lift over a sprocket.

Because I can't rotate the engine I can only get at one of the bolts holding the cam sprocket in. Am I able to remove one of these bolts and fenagle the chain off?

Is there some way gain even one or two more teeth worth of slack out of the engine?

I haven't had much time today to work on the chain issue, but I got the bike apart and covered, I'll put more into it tomorrow.

Here's some pictures.



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  #22  
Old 08-14-2012, 02:10 AM
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I would just remove the cams. Normally, you'd remove the two bolts that hold the sprocket onto the camshaft but, as you've said, you can't do this. I would stuff a clean cloth down the camchain tunnel, remove all the camshaft caps, keeping them in order and then take the camshafts off. You need to do this anyway to see if there's any obvious sign of bent valves.
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  #23  
Old 08-14-2012, 09:12 AM
Majortomxx Majortomxx is offline
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Thanks for the pointers.

I'll check the stock CCT today, I'm Pretty sure it's fine and the slipping was user error when doing the adjustment, but I'll check anyway. Is there anything aside from stripped threads I should be looking for? If its ok I'll put it back in until I can get ahold of an ACCT. I'll have a look at the cct mod when I get the chance too.

As far as the repairs go, I'll take out the cams today by loosening the caps if it's not raining. I was thinking I'd suspend 2 sections of copper pipe to support the chain while I do the finger compression test.

Is there's a better way to handle handle the chain?
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  #24  
Old 08-14-2012, 10:42 PM
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Thunderstorm today, no progress.
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  #25  
Old 08-15-2012, 10:55 PM
Majortomxx Majortomxx is offline
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So hey!

I need confirmation that this is good news, and I'll outline what I did in case anyone else needs the information.

I started today from the same situation I was in before, can't rotate the engine, but need to remove cams. I took off all the journal caps on either cam, it gave me about 1 cm more chain to work with. With this extra bit of room, if I rotated the cam, it would stand up instead of depressing the lifters, meaning the valves weren't getting depressed. I did this to both cams, I was able to rotate the engine worry free because the cams weren't doing anything with the valves. That meant I was able to remove the bolts securing the sprockets and remove the cams.

I did the finger suction/blowing test by rotating the engine sans cams, each cylinder gave a big woosh of air and a strong suck.

The cam chain tensioner was stuck which explains why nothing happened when I tried to adjust it. WD40 and some pushing/pulling freed it up. It was very stuck.

I put it all back together as Topcat explained. did the cam timing outlined here on the forum...

And hey, totally free rotation CW, no issues as far as I can see!!

The timing seems to be a little off though, so tomorrow I'll properly set it up before starting it.

I'll update once I have the timing set properly and report back with what I see.

Thanks for all the help thus far!
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  #26  
Old 08-16-2012, 05:16 AM
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Sounds like good news to me. Now, be careful and cautious. It is not unheard of that you could set the timing up perfectly, then rotate the engine a few rotations or so and it then be out of time. In one particular situation I recall a very good bike mechanic destroyed a valve train because of this phenomenon which turned out to be the cam chain got a little slack and was off a tooth at the crank shaft.

Just be sure to keep the valve cover off. Put it all back together with the timing set properly. Then rotate the engine by hand through a few full compressions (about 6 turns of the crank) and see that you have the timing still lined up. Then you can use the starter to try to crank the engine over, err..after replacing the valve cover of course.
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  #27  
Old 08-16-2012, 07:37 AM
Majortomxx Majortomxx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DGXSER View Post
Sounds like good news to me. Now, be careful and cautious. It is not unheard of that you could set the timing up perfectly, then rotate the engine a few rotations or so and it then be out of time. In one particular situation I recall a very good bike mechanic destroyed a valve train because of this phenomenon which turned out to be the cam chain got a little slack and was off a tooth at the crank shaft.

Just be sure to keep the valve cover off. Put it all back together with the timing set properly. Then rotate the engine by hand through a few full compressions (about 6 turns of the crank) and see that you have the timing still lined up. Then you can use the starter to try to crank the engine over, err..after replacing the valve cover of course.
Yeah, I've heard that too. Ill mke sure to rotate it a bunch and verify the timing before starting.
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  #28  
Old 08-19-2012, 08:21 PM
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Do yourself a favor and chuck that POS tensioner and get one from a VMax, drop it in and go.
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  #29  
Old 08-19-2012, 10:10 PM
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What Marshy said.
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  #30  
Old 08-20-2012, 01:07 AM
Majortomxx Majortomxx is offline
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I'm using the stock tensioner until I'm certain the engine is in ok shape. After putting it all back together with proper timing (rotated many times to be sure) I started it up and have this tapping sound. Im out of the province till Sunday but any ideas would be great.

Thanks for the heads up on the vmax tensioner by the way.

Any year in specific?
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