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  #16  
Old 07-22-2014, 04:19 PM
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James England James England is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mesmeridicus View Post
Rear tire rotates like normal, without grinding, in neutral. Clunking/grinding sound when rotated in first gear
Can you tell where the grinding sound is coming from??
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  #17  
Old 07-22-2014, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James England View Post
Can you tell where the grinding sound is coming from??
Also, did you try it and see if it makes the noise in 3, 4, and 5?
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80 SG Ol' Okie;79 engine & carbs w/pods, 45 pilots, 140 mains, Custom Mac 4 into 2 exhaust, ACCT,XS850 final drive,110/90/19 front tire,TKat fork brace, XS750 140 MPH speedometer, Vetter IV fairing, aftermarket hard bags and trunk, LG high back seat, XJ rear shocks.

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  #18  
Old 07-22-2014, 05:05 PM
mesmeridicus mesmeridicus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James England View Post
Can you tell where the grinding sound is coming from??
It's coming from the middle of the bike. There is some play in the rear wheel when in gear -- when pushing the wheel forward or backward it will hit resistance accompanied by a clunk in the middle of the bike, almost like it's going over a hump in the gear or something. Higher gears decrease the play when rotating the tire (i.e. less space in between humps/resistance).

I pulled the rubber boot off the drive shaft, and when in neutral it turns normally. When in gear however, it does not turn completely. It moves, but will not make a full revolution.

I lack the conceptual vocabulary to adequately describe this, thank you for bearing with me.
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  #19  
Old 07-22-2014, 05:23 PM
mesmeridicus mesmeridicus is offline
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I circled in red the area I figured the sound was coming from when I turned the wheel. My best approximation.
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  #20  
Old 07-22-2014, 05:29 PM
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Some play is normal, a lotta gears there. I'll almost bet from what you've posted your having a transmission issue. It's pretty common and it will spook you a little when those second gear dogs slip.

The repair isn't really difficult but it's time consuming and will test your nerves.

http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5090

http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37214

http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.php?t=161
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Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.

― Albert Einstein

80 SG Ol' Okie;79 engine & carbs w/pods, 45 pilots, 140 mains, Custom Mac 4 into 2 exhaust, ACCT,XS850 final drive,110/90/19 front tire,TKat fork brace, XS750 140 MPH speedometer, Vetter IV fairing, aftermarket hard bags and trunk, LG high back seat, XJ rear shocks.

The list changes.

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  #21  
Old 07-22-2014, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mesmeridicus View Post


I circled in red the area I figured the sound was coming from when I turned the wheel. My best approximation.
The area you have circled is the middle drive. A much easier fix than the transmission. Just swap it out with a good one.

First, check the fluid. The drain plug is in the rear of the engine near the swingarm in the center. It looks just like the engine oil drain plug.
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Greg

Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.

― Albert Einstein

80 SG Ol' Okie;79 engine & carbs w/pods, 45 pilots, 140 mains, Custom Mac 4 into 2 exhaust, ACCT,XS850 final drive,110/90/19 front tire,TKat fork brace, XS750 140 MPH speedometer, Vetter IV fairing, aftermarket hard bags and trunk, LG high back seat, XJ rear shocks.

The list changes.

Visit XS11.org too......
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  #22  
Old 07-22-2014, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mesmeridicus View Post
Accelerating moderately hard in first gear into second.

Put bike on centerstand, rear wheel will move in first gear without much resistance (there is some), and I hear a clunking sound when I turn it in gear.

Headed back out to garage to open her up.
The plot thickens. The more info you provide, the better we can analyze. As Greg has already alluded to, it's sounding more like the trans now. We often talk about the 2nd gear problem because it more commonly occurs with 2nd gear, BUT it can also occur in 1st gear( read the tech tip). Your bike/engine had low miles, but if the PO really hot rodded it and did lots of speed shifting and such, he could have worn the dogs/slots quicker than the usual 40-50k range we see this occur.

There is a fair amount of driveline slack due to the various parts/gears involved from the crank/primary chain/middle drive/driveshaft/final drive. Some of the thumping you hear when rotating the rear wheel back/forth is just a combination of taking up the driveline slack, but also possibly some slapping of the primary chain if it's gotten a little stretched as well.

If you've got space/room and cover where you're working on it now, you might just want to follow the tip and continue diving in. However, you may want to put the clutch cover back on, and then re test drive it to get a final confirmation of the symptoms. When you accellerate gently you should be able to go up thru the gears, but when you get on the throttle in 1st or 2nd, that's when you can experience what we call the "SKIP" sensation where the gear slips apart and then slams back together. If you experience this affect, then you've confirmed the need for the dremel fix and can then plan your attack around your schedule. I forgot to note where you are, many of us have done this repair, and so there might be someone near you that could guide you with the gear grinding part is desired/wanted.

T.C.
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  #23  
Old 07-23-2014, 04:32 AM
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Tranny

Sorry to say I believe it is the tranny as well. Good news is you don't have to split the cases to do it. The tech tip shows how to make the repair with the bike on it's back. Some have done this in a day and still had time for beer and supper.
In one of the links is a title, "between the cases". Have a look at that to familiarize your self with what you'll be seeing when the pan is off. (albeit from a different angle) Make sure you have all the necessary tools on hand before you start. Nothing worse than getting half through a job and having to run to the store.
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  #24  
Old 07-23-2014, 08:13 AM
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If you have a long term relationship with these motorcycles, it's inevitable that you're going to go here. The worst of it is getting started. Get busy and you can get it done over the weekend! This assuming you require the transmission fix. Having a talented friend helps too!


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  #25  
Old 07-23-2014, 04:24 PM
mesmeridicus mesmeridicus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TopCatGr58 View Post
The plot thickens. The more info you provide, the better we can analyze. As Greg has already alluded to, it's sounding more like the trans now. We often talk about the 2nd gear problem because it more commonly occurs with 2nd gear, BUT it can also occur in 1st gear( read the tech tip). Your bike/engine had low miles, but if the PO really hot rodded it and did lots of speed shifting and such, he could have worn the dogs/slots quicker than the usual 40-50k range we see this occur.

There is a fair amount of driveline slack due to the various parts/gears involved from the crank/primary chain/middle drive/driveshaft/final drive. Some of the thumping you hear when rotating the rear wheel back/forth is just a combination of taking up the driveline slack, but also possibly some slapping of the primary chain if it's gotten a little stretched as well.

If you've got space/room and cover where you're working on it now, you might just want to follow the tip and continue diving in. However, you may want to put the clutch cover back on, and then re test drive it to get a final confirmation of the symptoms. When you accellerate gently you should be able to go up thru the gears, but when you get on the throttle in 1st or 2nd, that's when you can experience what we call the "SKIP" sensation where the gear slips apart and then slams back together. If you experience this affect, then you've confirmed the need for the dremel fix and can then plan your attack around your schedule. I forgot to note where you are, many of us have done this repair, and so there might be someone near you that could guide you with the gear grinding part is desired/wanted.

T.C.
Alright. I'll keep investigating.

However, I am not at all mechanically inclined. If the issue is the transmission, and I were to take it to a shop, do you guys have any idea how much it might set me back? A lot, I know, but five hundred? Fifteen hundred? Etc.

This shop is about two miles from my house:

http://www.williamsvintagecycle.com/

And I have a good relationship with the guys who run it.
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  #26  
Old 07-23-2014, 07:04 PM
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Well,

The mech rates are anywhere from $50.00 to $75.00 or more an hour. As you've heard us say it can take a WEEKEND to do it, because of the prep work to flip the bike, then the teardown of the engine components just to get to the Tranny, then getting the gears out, then performing the Dremel work on them, then putting it all back together! Yes...pretty much Exhorbitant costs!! AND the other problem may be that with a motorcycle shop...their liability may not permit them to just MODIFY the gears, but to have to put in NEW ones, and they are getting scarce if not now unavailable from Yamaha....as well as $$.

So....as stated before, see about contacting an Xsive near you that could lend you a hand, you'll be amazed at what mech. skills you can develop! And to own one of these machines, you NEED to, otherwise you'll never be able to afford one, much less being able to keep it running!

T.C.
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  #27  
Old 07-23-2014, 07:41 PM
mesmeridicus mesmeridicus is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TopCatGr58 View Post
Well,

The mech rates are anywhere from $50.00 to $75.00 or more an hour. As you've heard us say it can take a WEEKEND to do it, because of the prep work to flip the bike, then the teardown of the engine components just to get to the Tranny, then getting the gears out, then performing the Dremel work on them, then putting it all back together! Yes...pretty much Exhorbitant costs!! AND the other problem may be that with a motorcycle shop...their liability may not permit them to just MODIFY the gears, but to have to put in NEW ones, and they are getting scarce if not now unavailable from Yamaha....as well as $$.

So....as stated before, see about contacting an Xsive near you that could lend you a hand, you'll be amazed at what mech. skills you can develop! And to own one of these machines, you NEED to, otherwise you'll never be able to afford one, much less being able to keep it running!

T.C.
Man, why couldn't it have been the clutch.

Whatever I decide to do, I'll post back here and update you all.
I'm in Dayton, Ohio, currently (south-western Ohio).

I'm clinging to the hope that it may be the middle drive as suggested earlier, but we'll see.

Thanks again for everyone's help, it's been indispensable.
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  #28  
Old 07-23-2014, 07:42 PM
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Most of the motorcycle techs nowadays haven't got a clue about these bikes.
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Greg

Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.

― Albert Einstein

80 SG Ol' Okie;79 engine & carbs w/pods, 45 pilots, 140 mains, Custom Mac 4 into 2 exhaust, ACCT,XS850 final drive,110/90/19 front tire,TKat fork brace, XS750 140 MPH speedometer, Vetter IV fairing, aftermarket hard bags and trunk, LG high back seat, XJ rear shocks.

The list changes.

Visit XS11.org too......
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  #29  
Old 07-23-2014, 07:50 PM
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http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6331
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Greg

Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.

― Albert Einstein

80 SG Ol' Okie;79 engine & carbs w/pods, 45 pilots, 140 mains, Custom Mac 4 into 2 exhaust, ACCT,XS850 final drive,110/90/19 front tire,TKat fork brace, XS750 140 MPH speedometer, Vetter IV fairing, aftermarket hard bags and trunk, LG high back seat, XJ rear shocks.

The list changes.

Visit XS11.org too......
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  #30  
Old 07-23-2014, 07:51 PM
motoman motoman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mesmeridicus View Post
Alright. I'll keep investigating.

However, I am not at all mechanically inclined. If the issue is the transmission, and I were to take it to a shop, do you guys have any idea how much it might set me back? A lot, I know, but five hundred? Fifteen hundred? Etc.

This shop is about two miles from my house:

http://www.williamsvintagecycle.com/

And I have a good relationship with the guys who run it.
First off, a reputable is NOT gonna do it without splitting the cases(dats what the manual says, and dats all they know). Secondly, they're not gonna back-cut/ dremel the engaging 'dogs'(liability factor). Thirdly, that leaves gear replacement only option for them. Problem is, availability.............now, your back to here.
Oh!....almost forgot.....no tech in shop today could even take one of these motors apart and CORRCTLY re-assemble it to run anyways.
The positive side..........have seen several members here over the years that were not mechaically inclined AND clueless do the tranny fix and beyond with vebal help from here.............only dumb question, is the one you chose not to ask......just sayin'.
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