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Old 06-21-2016, 01:40 PM
Sobitthen Sobitthen is offline
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Final Drive swap to 750

I did not wish to reopen some older posts on the matter.
My final in my XS11 had some slop in it and I had the final from my 750 sitting in shed so going through process of shimming the shaft by 5/8" and going to seal the holes to stop loss of lube into tube.
Saw some comments about Aluminum Nails, comments about JB Weld and comments about both together...
I have the 750 final in a vice draining back any lube that may screw up gluing it shut, and will go through bag of q-tips and solvent to insure holes are clean.
I had planned on just pushing in some plastic pins into the holes, style with ridges to secure position, and not know how fast this would piss out gear oil into tube if it failed, would have checked it weekly for any loss, though better go and do it the preferred method..
No real search ability like other forums to search a particular thread for info so asking here...
Thanks.. have shaft in hand and back to garage to look for a bushing or to parts store to acquire one..
Will glue or do the glue n nail or nail or plastic later...
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1979 XS1100 w/Factory Fairing <Need left cover>
1979 XS750 Special <Sold Spring 15>
1977 XS750
1978 IT250
1987 YFM350
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  #2  
Old 06-21-2016, 01:41 PM
Sobitthen Sobitthen is offline
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I must have been on an old thread earlier or it wasn't available before logging in, did not see search thread on the 2011 post I was viewing earlier.. oops..
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1979 XS1100 w/Factory Fairing <Need left cover>
1979 XS750 Special <Sold Spring 15>
1977 XS750
1978 IT250
1987 YFM350
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  #3  
Old 06-21-2016, 01:51 PM
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bikerphil bikerphil is offline
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I just filled the holes with black RTV, installed the larger washer with RTV on the bottom as well, and tightened down the nut and all has been fine on both my 750 drives for many years/miles now.
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  #4  
Old 06-21-2016, 01:57 PM
motoman motoman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sobitthen View Post
I did not wish to reopen some older posts on the matter.
My final in my XS11 had some slop in it and I had the final from my 750 sitting in shed so going through process of shimming the shaft by 5/8" and going to seal the holes to stop loss of lube into tube.
Saw some comments about Aluminum Nails, comments about JB Weld and comments about both together...
I have the 750 final in a vice draining back any lube that may screw up gluing it shut, and will go through bag of q-tips and solvent to insure holes are clean.
I had planned on just pushing in some plastic pins into the holes, style with ridges to secure position, and not know how fast this would piss out gear oil into tube if it failed, would have checked it weekly for any loss, though better go and do it the preferred method..
No real search ability like other forums to search a particular thread for info so asking here...
Thanks.. have shaft in hand and back to garage to look for a bushing or to parts store to acquire one..
Will glue or do the glue n nail or nail or plastic later...
Just comenting on the use of plastic pins..........not a good idea as there is to much heat in that area from the oil caused from gear friction. 705 drive is okay to use. The triple 850 drive is the better choice as it has heavier duty bearings, etc. Both choices are regularly used though.
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  #5  
Old 06-21-2016, 02:42 PM
Sobitthen Sobitthen is offline
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Not pulling apart pinion method...

Since most of the failures are involving torqueing and preload I have decided not to pull it apart and just plug the holes with some product , hence unable to use your method as it involves pulling nut and using washer from xs11 or sourcing one and then worrying about torque and preload...
So wondering what this aluminum nail method was, if using nails with heads or just aluminum pins glued in, I would hate for it to let loose into differential...
so thought I would just use a better glue product..
I just glued shut AIR holes on the heads in my 69 Buick GS using 73 455 and B4B, but I jammed a aluminum plug in hole first then the jb weld style product from permatex...
So again, only looking for method that does not involve pulling pinion nut off...
I hunted for steel spacer, only found brass, found one with flange on it, about 1/8" lip all around 1 end, thought use this on far end...
I'd upload a picture but only see URL method...
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1979 XS1100 w/Factory Fairing <Need left cover>
1979 XS750 Special <Sold Spring 15>
1977 XS750
1978 IT250
1987 YFM350

Last edited by Sobitthen; 06-21-2016 at 02:44 PM. Reason: grammar
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  #6  
Old 06-21-2016, 02:54 PM
Sobitthen Sobitthen is offline
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https://www.facebook.com/Craig.K.Ger...24425457592087

That is link to pictures on my facebook page that I document all my mechanical woes...
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1979 XS1100 w/Factory Fairing <Need left cover>
1979 XS750 Special <Sold Spring 15>
1977 XS750
1978 IT250
1987 YFM350
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  #7  
Old 06-21-2016, 06:30 PM
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BA80 BA80 is offline
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If you don't use the washer to cover the holes you will have issues. If you don't think you can get the preload right on the type I, ebay has the type II from the 850 for around $20 all day long.

Have you read the FD swap thread all the way through thoroughly?

http://www.xs11.com/xs11-info/tech-t...-6th-gear.html
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Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.

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80 SG Ol' Okie;79 engine & carbs w/pods, 45 pilots, 140 mains, Custom Mac 4 into 2 exhaust, ACCT,XS850 final drive,110/90/19 front tire,TKat fork brace, XS750 140 MPH speedometer, Vetter IV fairing, aftermarket hard bags and trunk, LG high back seat, XJ rear shocks.

The list changes.

Visit XS11.org too......
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  #8  
Old 06-21-2016, 07:40 PM
CaptonZap CaptonZap is offline
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Since you have the holes cleaned out with acetone, go to your local friendly general aviation airport and find someone that does repairs to air frames. Tell them that you need two, ( no, get four, in case you screw one up,) 5/32 inch diameter AN 470-5-8 rivets. (The last number, 8, is the length, and it can be a 6 or more, and if longer than 8, you can cut it off to a half inch long, +/- . Half an inch long will give you plenty of surface for the JB to grip)
Take a file, and file one edge off of the head, so that the rivet will go into the hole, with the filed edge right next to the shoulder. (A strong light in there will show you the reason to file the edge)
Clean ALL surfaces well with acetone, abrade those surfaces that are soft enough to be cut with a file, and JB Weld the rivets into the holes, slobbering some JB over the heads of the rivets and down on the surrounding metal. ( This assumes that the pinion shaft is vertical )
Be aware that JB runs until it sets, so don't put too much in the hole, and have it run down into the gear box. I take a long match stick, and smear the JB inside the hole, just getting a film on the bore surface. Then some around the shank of the rivet. Then insert it, and there should be enough in there to grip the shank. A long needle nose set of pliers works, or a long set of tweezers. Some will ooze out from under the head.
Let it cure, and your set. Literally

CZ
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  #9  
Old 06-21-2016, 09:08 PM
Sobitthen Sobitthen is offline
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Thanks for heads up on aviation rivets. wish I had seen it earlier.
I cleaned the snot out of it with the acetone and used just the liquid steel product I had leftover from the GS AIR hole project.
I mixed up about a 1/2 of a sugarcube worth of it and used less than 1/2, poked into hole with toothpick about 1/4" and smeared over the top so layer 1/2" each direction, ranging from a 64th on outer edge to a 32nd over the holes. I was going to go back out and look to see if it dripped through, I did the holes when it was runny and timed another minute before doing the top, another minute and it was getting thick.
I had to work with epoxies right out of high school, long ago, making fish poles and there were a couple similar things we needed to time the cure for consistency.
I did it by spinning a toothpick in it to see how much sets up on toothpick, it is the easiest method, if it only doubles the thickness it will drip and fill, if it is 4 times the size it will stick and still be spreadable, 8 times you waited too long and lucky if it sticks... when you mix it 50/50 you have less than 5 minutes to work with what I had, so you have to be ready to use it...
I hope a limited amount actually dripped into hole, I tried to time it so it wouldn't ooze, but unless you do this often, it is a crapshoot for any perfection...
I will hunt for an 850 unit if they are so cheap, take it only those 3 are the same, I had a spare XJ final out in pole barn too, seems to me had to shim shaft there too if using the 650 in the 750 or visa versa as I made a shim years ago, hope I didn't overlook any oil or grease concerns, think it was a clean dry tube from what I recall, been 5 years...
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1979 XS1100 w/Factory Fairing <Need left cover>
1979 XS750 Special <Sold Spring 15>
1977 XS750
1978 IT250
1987 YFM350
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  #10  
Old 06-21-2016, 10:22 PM
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rombat rombat is offline
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I also did not want to mess with preload when I did the swap. My solution was to purchase a large stainless washer that fits inside the housing. I ground out the center of the washer with a dremel until it fit over the pinion nut but still covered the holes. Cleaned with acetone and used "The Right Stuff" gasket sealer to fill the holes. I then put a bead of sealer on the washer and dropped it over the pinion nut. The final drive was secured with the pinion nut face up in a vice. Used a large deep socket that fit over the nut to put pressure on the washer. Threw a 10lb weight on top of the socket overnight and it has held ever since.
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  #11  
Old 06-21-2016, 10:38 PM
Sobitthen Sobitthen is offline
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Actually that is what I wanted to do for the second layer, look for some valve spring shims or something that fit over that nut...
That or fill the bottom of the pocket with black RTV or a rubber gasket from plumbing since it all spins together...

Hate for it to leak and mess with me on a longer drive, doubt it would throw me into the woods, unless I really neglected to check levels.
I had it full of Amsoil synth lube and then left it laying with vent downwards after bringing into town, flipped it wrong way onto bench in the dark, so will be draining and refilling now as I am out of Amsoil and have gallon jug of another brand's synthetic...

So far the thin layer is down there, I could use your method if I could find a washer to fit in there...
Wait for it to fully cure down there, find a socket that fits into opening then match socket to some washer.

Bike is sitting outside on stand, wrapped a sock around the housing so bugs and dirt from air didn't get in there, final in the garage in a vise, as long as it doesn't rain, I have some time to work with glues and curing if I don't trust what I've already done, but this could be a good first step to a non-removal method perhaps... If those holes were only tapped...
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1979 XS1100 w/Factory Fairing <Need left cover>
1979 XS750 Special <Sold Spring 15>
1977 XS750
1978 IT250
1987 YFM350
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  #12  
Old 06-21-2016, 10:56 PM
Sobitthen Sobitthen is offline
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Are we limited to using the XS750-XS850-XS1100 Finals in these?
Was looking at other final drives and some are pretty similar looking on both drive side and shock mount areas...
I worked on all 3 of my XSs, just can't remember what I did to which any longer...
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1979 XS1100 w/Factory Fairing <Need left cover>
1979 XS750 Special <Sold Spring 15>
1977 XS750
1978 IT250
1987 YFM350
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  #13  
Old 06-21-2016, 11:15 PM
Sobitthen Sobitthen is offline
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So far I found that the XJ1100 final is the same, but appears the 650 and 750 used a smaller axle bolt so they won't swap...
Would be nice to have a list of finals we could use in these with their respective gear ratios...
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1979 XS1100 w/Factory Fairing <Need left cover>
1979 XS750 Special <Sold Spring 15>
1977 XS750
1978 IT250
1987 YFM350
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  #14  
Old 06-21-2016, 11:25 PM
Sobitthen Sobitthen is offline
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Found Chart Here

http://www.xs11.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13614

That thread has a chart, unsure if he means those FDs will work or not, see the footnotes, if those are the limitations of using those drives in the XS11, then we have a lot of selection to what can be used, if that is just a list of gear ratios, then unsure what to do with the list, will comment on that post, even if old for answers there...
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1979 XS1100 w/Factory Fairing <Need left cover>
1979 XS750 Special <Sold Spring 15>
1977 XS750
1978 IT250
1987 YFM350
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  #15  
Old 06-21-2016, 11:38 PM
Sobitthen Sobitthen is offline
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I took his final chart and highlighted drives that won't work and ones that need modifications outside normal swaps, I will repost here if the author agrees.

It makes viewing the document easier if the formatting stays to what I changed it to, red for no fit, blue for major modification needed is all I did then resorted list accordingly...
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1979 XS1100 w/Factory Fairing <Need left cover>
1979 XS750 Special <Sold Spring 15>
1977 XS750
1978 IT250
1987 YFM350
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aluminum nails, final drive, swap, xs1100, xs750

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