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Old 08-02-2014, 09:30 PM
leezardus leezardus is offline
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Question XS Starting problem. One click and... nothing:(

Hello everyone,

I'm new to this forum and i have a problem starting my yamaha after winter storage. When i press starter button it makes one click and that's it (see video below).

I've made a search before opening this thread and have already checked some possible solutions but no luck.

What i know so far:

- Battery is charged (tried another one from my car just to be sure).

- Solenoid seems to be working. When i put a screwdriver in between of its two main contacts i get same result as when i press starter button.

- Starter?? When detached from the motor it spins, once i put it back same result as on the video below.

- Connections battery-solenoid-starter seems to be fine.

I took this video to give you an idea what is happening.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUt1...T6kQWAmqLRvVng

Any ideas??

Thanks in advance.
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  #2  
Old 08-02-2014, 10:29 PM
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TopCatGr58 TopCatGr58 is offline
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Hey there Leezardus,

Okay, watched the video. As you stated, you tried direct shorting the solenoid, and the starter acted the same. You say you also tried using your car battery. Yet, when the starter is removed, it will spin. Your bike is an 81, so it doesn't have a kickstarter.

You stored the bike for winter, HOW?? Did you prep it with OIL squirted into the spark plug holes?? Was it stored in a climate controlled environment, or outside?? ?Possible rust in cylinders?

So...first can suggest taking the timing cover off, and would also suggest removing spark plugs to reduce the compression/resistance, and then take wrench to the large square shaped portion and try to rotate the engine just to make sure it's not frozen. IF the engine turns, then we've eliminated one possible problem.

Next, clean off the grounding strap from the starter to the frame below the carbs, as well as the starter to engine contact surfaces....if there's a poor ground, then the motor may not be able to function.

If that doesn't do it....btw, did you just use JUMPER cables from the car battery? Have the bike battery LOAD tested, can hold 12 volts, but may not have much CCA's left.....surface charge only!? How old is the battery?

T.C.
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Old 08-03-2014, 09:16 AM
CaptonZap CaptonZap is offline
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Originally Posted by TopCatGr58 View Post
So...first can suggest taking the timing cover off, and would also suggest removing spark plugs to reduce the compression/resistance, and then take wrench to the large square shaped portion and try to rotate the engine just to make sure it's not frozen. IF the engine turns, then we've eliminated one possible problem.


T.C.
In case you are new to the 11's, the engine turns clockwise when viewed from the timing (left) side.
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Old 08-03-2014, 09:35 AM
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Make sure to turn from the square nut do not use an Allen wrench to turn the engine it may shear the bolt. I had a friend do this once.
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Old 08-03-2014, 06:48 PM
leezardus leezardus is offline
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Thanks guys, you were right! It seems cylinders are rusted.

I stored the bike outside under a cover without any preparation for winter and here's the result. I blame myself now for that.

I did what TopCatGr58 had recommended.

First i removed spark plugs then took the timing cover off, put on neutral and tried to rotate the crankshaft - doesn't move

What i've noticed that two out of four spark plugs i could unscrew using just my hands without a wrench. I believe water could easily come to those cylinders.
It seems a previous owner didn't tighten them up well. I'm surprised that it could run with that issue before.

Than i've put some lube inside the cylinders and tried to give it a push on 5th gear -still doesn't move. Damn!

I wonder now are there some ways to deal with that without engine disassembly?
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Old 08-03-2014, 07:00 PM
rdmcguy rdmcguy is offline
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bummer

Thats a drag,I am sure you will get a lot of input ...
try squirting some marvel mystery oil down the plug holes and let it sit for a while....after that try rocking the bike back and forth while in gear...
don't get too carried away with that procedure as you may damage the valves,
as has been mentioned the engine runs clockwise when viewed from shifter side of bike..after you break it loose you will more than likely have to remove the top end for inspection /honing ect...
good luck
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Old 08-03-2014, 08:03 PM
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TopCatGr58 TopCatGr58 is offline
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Hey again,

Sorry to hear that I was right! As RDMCGuy said, squirt/pour some Marvel Mystery Oil down into the cylinders/spark plug holes, and let it sit a few days. You may NOT need to rehone the cylinders once it breaks free. We have had several members that resurrected bikes with flash rust in them, and after several hundred miles, the rings scrubbed and reseated and developed proper compression levels again.

Don't try to put too much stress on the timing plate square. IT's not that strong either. The large HEX nut/bolt on the right engine side that holds the rotor on is stronger. However, you'll be turning it CCW which if it's too stuck, you could end up loosening the bolt...but it's on there at ~50 ft/lbs or more. You can also try putting a strap wrench around the rotor, or even just a bar wedged in between the slots of the rotor to attempt to break it loose. Depending on how much MMO you put in, it will penetrate past the rings and will get into the engine oil. It's a good cleaner/solvent and so running the bike just on the centerstand with NO hard throttle/revs and NO LOAD on the engine/don't ride it, just run it for 5-10 minutes, and then turn it off, drain the oil/filter and put fresh oil/filter in/on it, and then just ride it for a while, ie. several hundred miles, and then do a compression test!

T.C.
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Old 08-03-2014, 08:52 PM
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Instead of 5th gear try 1st, you will have more mechanical advantage to turn the engine over. I'm not advising you to get it on a sprinting roll and drop the clutch, just try rocking it forward and backwards in first some.

Other thing to consider is the valve stems might get rusty and hang open. Once the pistons let lose and turn over you might have a valve hang open and bend once the piston hits it or the other valve contacts it. Just food for thought, you probably didn't want to hear that but it's better to be informed of the risks.
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Old 08-03-2014, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by WMarshy View Post
Instead of 5th gear try 1st, you will have more mechanical advantage to turn the engine over.
You're backwards on your thinking there Wade. The higher the gear the more mechanical advantage you will have from the wheel.

The lower gears give the engine more mechanical advantage, that's why they are there.
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Old 08-04-2014, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by BA80 View Post
You're backwards on your thinking there Wade. The higher the gear the more mechanical advantage you will have from the wheel.

The lower gears give the engine more mechanical advantage, that's why they are there.
Haha, your right Greg. IDK what I was thinking when I wrote that. lol
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Stock except K&N

'79 XS11 SF
Stock, no title.

'84 Chevy K-10 "Big Blue"
GM 350, Muncie SM465, NP208, GM 10 Bolt with 3.42gears turnin 31x10.5 Baja Claws

"What they do have is an implacable, unrelenting presence and movement that bespeaks massive power lurking behind paint and chrome. They don't wail like a screeching ninja, the don't rumble like a harley. They just growl like a spactic, stressed out badger waiting to rip your face off and eat your soul." Trainzz~RIP~
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Old 08-04-2014, 07:57 AM
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James England James England is offline
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Originally Posted by WMarshy View Post
Other thing to consider is the valve stems might get rusty and hang open. Once the pistons let lose and turn over you might have a valve hang open and bend once the piston hits it or the other valve contacts it. Just food for thought, you probably didn't want to hear that but it's better to be informed of the risks.
If there is enough rust to freeze the pistons, then there may quite probably be enough to make a valve hang open. I bought a scrap XS for parts and one of the inlet valves was rusted open. I discovered that when I turned the engine over on the starter. It bent the valve and then sparked on that cylinder. It set fire to the carb!! I thought the whole bike was going to go up when the flames hit the airbox. Quite scary. Fortunately, the bike was a heap to start with, so no loss that it did the above. Definitely a lesson there though...
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Old 08-04-2014, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by James England View Post
If there is enough rust to freeze the pistons, then there may quite probably be enough to make a valve hang open. I bought a scrap XS for parts and one of the inlet valves was rusted open. I discovered that when I turned the engine over on the starter. It bent the valve and then sparked on that cylinder. It set fire to the carb!! I thought the whole bike was going to go up when the flames hit the airbox. Quite scary. Fortunately, the bike was a heap to start with, so no loss that it did the above. Definitely a lesson there though...
Now just imagine if that happened when the carbs were puking gas out the end bell because the petcocks and float valves were leaking which filled the bottom of your airbox. Would have been an interesting light show.

We had a memeber that caught his bike on fire on his front porch and almost lost his whole house! Keep a fire extinguisher handy, thats for sure.
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'79 XS11 F
Stock except K&N

'79 XS11 SF
Stock, no title.

'84 Chevy K-10 "Big Blue"
GM 350, Muncie SM465, NP208, GM 10 Bolt with 3.42gears turnin 31x10.5 Baja Claws

"What they do have is an implacable, unrelenting presence and movement that bespeaks massive power lurking behind paint and chrome. They don't wail like a screeching ninja, the don't rumble like a harley. They just growl like a spactic, stressed out badger waiting to rip your face off and eat your soul." Trainzz~RIP~
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  #13  
Old 08-04-2014, 09:51 PM
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TopCatGr58 TopCatGr58 is offline
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Hey Marshy,

Thanks for adding the Stuck Valve info. Hopefully Leezardus is still just soaking it still, and so has time to get some PB Blaster, take off the carbs and the exhaust headers, and visually inspect the valve checking for rust on any that are partially OPEN, and then squirt a liberal amount of the PB Blaster onto the valve stem up to the valve guide in an attempt to dissolve any rust.

Regrettably he can't take the head off before getting the pistons unstuck because of the need to be able to rotate the cams to be able to get to both bolts that secure the cam sprockets on the cams/shoulders to be able to get enough slack to get the chain loose!

T.C.
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Old 08-05-2014, 02:35 AM
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I have never tried this and have no idea if its true or not but a buddy of mine told me his cylinders had rusted in his bike and he poured some vinegar down the plug holes and let it sit a day and the vinegar supposedly breaks the rust down somehow, I guess with the acid in vinegar. anyway, he said vinegar is really good for a stuck engine and he did not have to hone either. Like I said, this is just heresay but it sounds cool. lol
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Old 08-05-2014, 05:54 AM
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jetmechmarty jetmechmarty is offline
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I have never tried this and have no idea if its true or not but a buddy of mine told me his cylinders had rusted in his bike and he poured some vinegar down the plug holes and let it sit a day and the vinegar supposedly breaks the rust down somehow, I guess with the acid in vinegar. anyway, he said vinegar is really good for a stuck engine and he did not have to hone either. Like I said, this is just heresay but it sounds cool. lol
Uh, NO! Yes vinegar eats the rust, and the pistons, and anything else it contacts.
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