Home arrow Forums



Go Back   XS11.com Forums > Idle Talk Forum > XS11/XJ11 Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-04-2011, 04:00 AM
anarchy18's Avatar
anarchy18 anarchy18 is offline
Truly XSive
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 134
Fresh Oil, No Power Now, WHY?

Hi everybody! I just did a oil change on my first XS11 not knowing what the previous owner before me had in it I added 20w-50 4T Motul (seems like good quality oil but thick as honey).

Well after the oil change I idled it abit to let the oil get around and warmed her up, turning the engine off afterwards and looking in the sight glass to make sure the oil level was just right! Then when I was happy I took off and everything went fine the first few miles and all asudden it started giving me a fluttering sound like she would die if I let off the gas like i had a kinked fuel hose. I stopped and checked that but the hoses looked good! SHE WAS WORKING FINE RIGHT BEFORE THIS OIL CHANGE!!! Now she wont go over a certain rpms and the idle dropped from 1200 to 800RPMS. If I dont gas it at idle she will just turn off. Did maybe another problem arise while I was on my test ride or has anyone heard of something like this before???
__________________
'81 Yamama XS1100 5K7 German Model

What's the difference between erotic and kinky?
Erotic = using a feather
Kinky = using the whole chicken

Last edited by anarchy18; 09-04-2011 at 04:04 AM. Reason: typos
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-04-2011, 04:25 AM
James England's Avatar
James England James England is offline
XS-XJ Super Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: North of England
Posts: 3,039
Did you change the oil filter at the same time as the oil change? If so, did you make sure that the washer and spring were under the filter? I usually fill the filter assembly with oil (with the bolt in of course) before re-installing, just to avoid the slight oil starvation that results from an empty filter housing.

Your oil viscosity is correct at 20/50 although you said it is as thick as honey? That doesn't sound quite right to me, although it depends on what the ambient temperature was when you used the oil and whether it had sat in cold conditions etc.

You checked the oil level and got it between the two lines with the bike on the centre stand, on a level surface, right?

How many miles had you done on the bike before changing the oil?
__________________
XS1100F 1980 European model. Standard. Dyna coils. Iridium plugs. XS750 final drive (sometimes). Micron fork brace. Progressive front springs. Geezer regulator/rectifier. Stainless 4 into 2 exhaust. Auto CCT (Venturer 1300) SOLD. New project now on the go. 1980 European model.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-04-2011, 06:56 AM
DGXSER's Avatar
DGXSER DGXSER is offline
Doctor of XSology(Deceased)
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 9,769
If you let it sit for a while and then come back to it, does it work fine again for a little bit?

Fuel starvation can happen a number of ways, one of them being the gas cap vent plugging. It will act just like it is running out of fuel, because it is. Then let it sit and the air will eventually make it into the tank and you get fuel again, for a little bit.
__________________
Life is what happens while your planning everything else!

When your work speaks for itself, don't interrupt.

81 XS1100 Special - Humpty Dumpty
80 XS1100 Special - Project Resurrection


Previously owned
93 GSX600F
80 XS1100 Special - Ruby
81 XS1100 Special
81 CB750 C
80 CB750 C
78 XS750
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-04-2011, 07:21 AM
skids's Avatar
skids skids is offline
XS-XJ Super Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Florissant, CO, USA
Posts: 4,958
Check the vacuum hose to the octopus.
__________________
Skids (Sid Hansen)

Down to one 1978 E. Stock air box with K&N filter, 81H pipes and carbs, 8500 feet elevation.
03 Honda ST1300 ABS
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-04-2011, 07:25 AM
anarchy18's Avatar
anarchy18 anarchy18 is offline
Truly XSive
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by James England View Post
Did you change the oil filter at the same time as the oil change? If so, did you make sure that the washer and spring were under the filter? I usually fill the filter assembly with oil (with the bolt in of course) before re-installing, just to avoid the slight oil starvation that results from an empty filter housing.

Your oil viscosity is correct at 20/50 although you said it is as thick as honey? That doesn't sound quite right to me, although it depends on what the ambient temperature was when you used the oil and whether it had sat in cold conditions etc.

You checked the oil level and got it between the two lines with the bike on the centre stand, on a level surface, right?

How many miles had you done on the bike before changing the oil?
Hi! and thanks for your reply yes i put the spring and the washer back in under the New Oil Filter but I did not fill up the bowl. Thats why I idled my bike before the test run to let the filter fill up. Then I added oil to get back up between the 2 lines with the bike on its center stand.

Since I owned the bike I put maybe 2000 KM on it riding it with whatever the previous owner put in it since he said he just gave it a tune-up. 2 weeks ago i added cheap automotive 15-40. Didnt feel good about it because I thought maybe I should do more research before I ride it like that. Well the 2nd gear gremlin got me a couple days ago and I blamed it on the cheap oil and bought the best oil I could find 20w-50 4T Motul motorcycle oil. I just put it yesterday and I thought my bike would thank me but its doing the opposite.

-UPDATE_
Just checked the plugs and did a compression test. 116psi-145psi were the ranges. Cylinder 4 was the highest and the only plug that wasnt pure black and dry (new plugs that i put in 1 month ago). They all have a spark tho. Does this help? Compression test was done pulling 1 plug at a time and idling the bike just enough to keep it running and I did not warm up the bike before hand!!!
__________________
'81 Yamama XS1100 5K7 German Model

What's the difference between erotic and kinky?
Erotic = using a feather
Kinky = using the whole chicken

Last edited by anarchy18; 09-04-2011 at 07:34 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-04-2011, 07:29 AM
anarchy18's Avatar
anarchy18 anarchy18 is offline
Truly XSive
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by DGXSER View Post
If you let it sit for a while and then come back to it, does it work fine again for a little bit?

Fuel starvation can happen a number of ways, one of them being the gas cap vent plugging. It will act just like it is running out of fuel, because it is. Then let it sit and the air will eventually make it into the tank and you get fuel again, for a little bit.
I'll go outside and try it out right now!!! I just wrote a update on what I've just done in the comment above. Will probly open the airbox also and run it without the air filter to see what happens? I just dont understand how it was running so great then in the middle of running just started giving up on me and. ALL THE PLUGS BUT 1 WERE BLACK!!! ive only ridden it maybe 3 miles since its been acting like its starving for fuel. But no fuel lines are kinked and it was doing fine right before. You dont think the oil had anything to do with it? Thank you for your reply
__________________
'81 Yamama XS1100 5K7 German Model

What's the difference between erotic and kinky?
Erotic = using a feather
Kinky = using the whole chicken

Last edited by anarchy18; 09-04-2011 at 07:33 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-04-2011, 07:56 AM
anarchy18's Avatar
anarchy18 anarchy18 is offline
Truly XSive
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 134
Heres pics of the plugs i just pulled. Does this help with whats going on here?

PLUG #4 http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a97...4/DSC01814.jpg

PLUG #3 http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a97...4/DSC01828.jpg

PLUG #2 http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a97...4/DSC01843.jpg

And plug #1 looked painted black just like Plug #3

also did a comression test supposed to be at 145psi + or - 15 and I was between 116psi - 125psi but i didnt warm up my engine before hand like im supposed to I only know they all held their compression once the pressure built up. Does this help also?
__________________
'81 Yamama XS1100 5K7 German Model

What's the difference between erotic and kinky?
Erotic = using a feather
Kinky = using the whole chicken
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-04-2011, 08:39 AM
crazy steve crazy steve is offline
XS-XJ Guru MODERATOR
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Beautiful outer Yelm, WA
Posts: 7,932
Lots of possibilities here....

Did you hold the throttle wide open while doing your compression test? If not, that will give you low numbers.

Have you checked the valve clearances? If you don't know the last time they were adjusted, you should at least look.

Weak spark can cause this; have you checked the coils for secondary coil resistance between the plug boots? You're looking for under 30K ohms (25 is what you should have), higher numbers can mean bad connections; try unscrewing the spark plug caps and trimming about 1/4" off the ends of the wires, and check the caps while you're at it. The caps should have 5K ohms through each of them.

If you know you're getting spark on all four, then the problem is almost surely carbs. A bit of crap in the carbs can cause the float valves to hang up, leading to a rich fuel mixture. These carbs are extremely touchy about dirt/crud, they may need a good cleaning out.
__________________
Fast, Cheap, Reliable... Pick any two

'78E original owner - resto project
'78E ???? owner - Modder project FJ forks, 4-piston calipers F/R, 160/80-16 rear tire
'82 XJ rebuild project
'80SG restified, red SOLD
'79F parts...
'81H more parts...

Other current bikes:
'93 XL1200 Anniversary Sportster 85RWHP
'86 XL883/1200 Chopper
'82 XL1000 w/1450cc Buell, Baker 6-speed, in-progress project
Cage: '13 Mustang GT/CS with a few 'custom' touches
Yep, can't leave nuthin' alone...
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-04-2011, 12:10 PM
11Rider 11Rider is offline
XStremely XSive
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 331
Yes, rather than fuel starvation you have three rich cylinders which are fouling the plugs which is leading to the poor driveability. Beyond that I'm stumped. I could see two cylinders being rich from a stuck float valve because 1&2 and 3&4 are connected. But I'm not sure how stuck float valves could cause three rich cylinders. Besides, that would be some coincidence that all of a sudden three float valves get stuck at the same time, no??
__________________
'79 XS11 Special, fork gaiters, Uni pods, 45 pilots, 140 mains, ditched the octy, solo seat, T kat fork brace

Purrs like a kitten, runs like a scalded cat
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-04-2011, 12:57 PM
anarchy18's Avatar
anarchy18 anarchy18 is offline
Truly XSive
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by 11Rider View Post
Yes, rather than fuel starvation you have three rich cylinders which are fouling the plugs which is leading to the poor driveability. Beyond that I'm stumped. I could see two cylinders being rich from a stuck float valve because 1&2 and 3&4 are connected. But I'm not sure how stuck float valves could cause three rich cylinders. Besides, that would be some coincidence that all of a sudden three float valves get stuck at the same time, no??
Thanks for your reply! Shes runnin and i dont know what i did!!! Hmmm
__________________
'81 Yamama XS1100 5K7 German Model

What's the difference between erotic and kinky?
Erotic = using a feather
Kinky = using the whole chicken
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-04-2011, 01:02 PM
anarchy18's Avatar
anarchy18 anarchy18 is offline
Truly XSive
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 134
Ok case closed!!!

I took everyones advice and I dont know what did it cause I really didnt't do much but look to make sure the petcocks r flowing smoothly, that the cylinders have compression, and looked at my air filter which looked clogged but not dirty (how do I tell if the XS11 needs another air filter?) , I took the fuel lines off and looked through them and I took of my plug cables and caps and checked for ohmage which 1 cap has 9 resistance and all the others closer to 5 (is it bad). Well after doing all that I slapped her back togethor and she ran like a champ and idles again finely!!!!!

Im thinking a peice of garbage in the fuel tank that clogged a line but I already had looked at the fuel sightfilters and they looked like they were flowing fine so I dont know what it was!!!

Also I found out that my petcock only works on Prime (which lets gas flow freely) and theres no vacuum lines hooked up to it at all!!! What is the right setting anyways cause RES and ON just close it off.

Thanks Everybody For the Quick Responses and lending a hand!!!
__________________
'81 Yamama XS1100 5K7 German Model

What's the difference between erotic and kinky?
Erotic = using a feather
Kinky = using the whole chicken

Last edited by anarchy18; 09-04-2011 at 01:11 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-04-2011, 01:16 PM
anarchy18's Avatar
anarchy18 anarchy18 is offline
Truly XSive
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 134
And someone above mention that I should check the vacuum hose connecting to the octupus. Uhmmm wheres that located? I didnt see any vacuum hoses at all! Is that even possible?

YOU GUYS RULE, IF I WAS ON MY OWN I'D PROBLY GIVEN UP A LONG TIME AGO
__________________
'81 Yamama XS1100 5K7 German Model

What's the difference between erotic and kinky?
Erotic = using a feather
Kinky = using the whole chicken
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-04-2011, 03:33 PM
cywelchjr's Avatar
cywelchjr cywelchjr is offline
XS-XJ Super Guru(Deceased)
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 4,450
Ok, looks like you have one of the standard models which don't have the octy. But the petcocks are vacuum operated and should have a vacuum line hooked to the carb boots, one to the boot of carb two and the other to the boot of carb 3 (the closest one to each one of course), otherwise they will only work on prime, which also leaves you with no reserve either. The nipple that faces the front on each petcock is the vacuum one, and should be connected to the vacuum source for proper operation.
__________________
Cy

1980 XS1100G (Brutus) w/81H Engine
Duplicolor Mirage Paint Job (Purple/Green)
Vetter Windjammer IV
Vetter hard bags & Trunk
OEM Luggage Rack
Jardine Spaghetti 4-2 exhaust system
Spade Fuse Box
Turn Signal Auto Cancel Mod
750 FD Mod
TC Spin on Oil Filter Adapter (temp removed)
XJ1100 Front Footpegs
XJ1100 Shocks

I was always taught to respect my elders, but it keeps getting harder to find one.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 09-04-2011, 03:34 PM
fredintoon's Avatar
fredintoon fredintoon is offline
Master of XSology
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Saskatoon SK
Posts: 6,795
Quote:
Originally Posted by anarchy18 View Post
And someone above mention that I should check the vacuum hose connecting to the octupus. Uhmmm wheres that located? I didn't see any vacuum hoses at all! Is that even possible?
Hi Derrick,
octopus is the central vacuum operated fuel control valve.
They are only fitted to Specials. The valve is bolted atop the carbs and you can't miss them because they've got (you guessed it!) Eight fuel and vacuum lines going to them. Bikes that have (or originally had) them have gas taps with two gas spigots each; one flows on Prime and t'other flows on On & Res.
Standards have 2 vacuum operated gas taps and if they don't have vacuum lines hooked up they will only run on Prime.
__________________
Fred Hill, S'toon
XS11SG with Spirit of America sidecar
"The Flying Pumpkin"
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 09-04-2011, 03:49 PM
anarchy18's Avatar
anarchy18 anarchy18 is offline
Truly XSive
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Germany
Posts: 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by cywelchjr View Post
Ok, looks like you have one of the standard models which don't have the octy. But the petcocks are vacuum operated and should have a vacuum line hooked to the carb boots, one to the boot of carb two and the other to the boot of carb 3 (the closest one to each one of course), otherwise they will only work on prime, which also leaves you with no reserve either. The nipple that faces the front on each petcock is the vacuum one, and should be connected to the vacuum source for proper operation.
Gotcha Thanks man but without seeing one in person how its setup ill probly just leave mine how it is. dont wanna mess with it if its working the way it is Im just wondering how i fixed my probelm today about my bike having no power and dying at idle right after i changed to a thicker oil? 2nd gear fix is next and figuring out why my front break calipers arent opening back up!!!
__________________
'81 Yamama XS1100 5K7 German Model

What's the difference between erotic and kinky?
Erotic = using a feather
Kinky = using the whole chicken
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
fluttering, high rpms. 20w-50, no power, oil

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Integrated by BBpixel ©2004-2021, jvbPlugin