Fuel E-15

[Bonz]

Thanks for the article, Jetmechmarty.

No question ethanol is bad in fuels for older vehicles. I have shared this before, and that is I put two stroke outboard (tcw3) oil in the gas tank of my SG and my other bikes in a concentration that keeps the fuel at around 1oz oil per 4-5 gallons. I feel, from reading on the subject, this helps "coat" the fuel system and protect from ethanol. I have yet to have an ethanol issue in 9 years of owning carbureted and FI bikes in Colorado with exclusive E10 fuel use.

[madmax-im]

E15 and Flex Fuels are only to be used on 2007 and later models...

[madmax-im]

best way to prevent ethanol problems is not to use it...ofc that depends on your state and the availability of ethanol free gas...as i said elsewhere...here in NC there are 600 ethanol free gas stations statewide...one station is 4 miles from my door...the price for ethanol free 87 octane is $2.40(locally)...to me the additional cost is well worth it in terms of performance...gas mileage and is worry free... your state and your mileage may vary...

[DeanR]

Thankfully, ethanol free available to me too Ben... 70 cents more per gallon though! I use it in the XS, which sees virtually no miles. It gets drained in the fall, to be used in the lawnmower next year. The empty tank comes in the house for the winter. Same is true for the 91ST.

I don't drain the 99ST unless I have to pull the tank for some reason, because I'm on it whenever the roads aren't white with salt, or that other stuff.

Indecision regarding no ethanol in my 08 Jeep, which sees about a thousand miles a year, is always present.

Originally Posted by madmax-im

best way to prevent ethanol problems is not to use it...ofc that depends on your state and the availability of ethanol free gas...as i said elsewhere...here in NC there are 600 ethanol free gas stations statewide...one station is 4 miles from my door...the price for ethanol free 87 octane is $2.40(locally)...to me the additional cost is well worth it in terms of performance...gas mileage and worry free your state and your mileage may vary...

[motoman]

Originally Posted by DeanR

Thankfully, ethanol free available to me too Ben... 70 cents more per gallon though! I use it in the XS, which sees virtually no miles. It gets drained in the fall, to be used in the lawnmower next year. The empty tank comes in the house for the winter. Same is true for the 91ST.

I don't drain the 99ST unless I have to pull the tank for some reason, because I'm on it whenever the roads aren't white with salt, or that other stuff.

Indecision regarding no ethanol in my 08 Jeep, which sees about a thousand miles a year, is always present.

Add a splash of Star-Tron Enzyme Treatment to that STeed that's sitting not getting run any much. It'll save you a big head-ache having to pull THOSE carbs!(BTDT before totaling the STeed). Up till this past year it was only available at motorcycle shops. Now, I've seen it in all Auto-Zones, etc. I've used it for the past two yrs. in my Yammy generators(x2). Carb diaphrams used to get a bit sticking till it run a bit........never an issue now, plus the fuel doesn't turn a greenish color and it still always smells like fuel as it should. Also use it in my mower fuel that ends up setting all winter. Never an issue with that or the gallon jug of fuel either. The Venturer has had a full-full tank of fuel for over a yr. now, with Star-Tron added. When I drained it a few months back, it still looked and smelled like fuel, so just put it in the wife's Escape. Escape never did have an issue and ran fine. Remember, Star-Tron is NOT a cleaner additive like Sea-Foam, just some sort of enzyme treatment that keeps the E-10 fuel from separating or drawing in moisture. Moisture getting where its not supposed to be definitely not an issue in this part of country, but very well would be for the coastal folks on inland a few hundred miles. Not one to believe in 'snake-oil'........ever.......but this chit works from my long term testing so far anyways.

[Bonz]

Now that is some good user experience and advice right there.

[motoman]

Originally Posted by Bonz

Question for the collective. Running high-test in the XS has been proven to carbon up exhaust valves long-term, leading to burnt valves and lower power output all things equal because the XS isn't designed to need high octane gas. However, ethanol shortens the life of rubber fuel system parts depending on how well the owner keeps additives in the fuel to offset ethanol.

I would be hesitant to do ethanol free high test because carb parts are replaceable and an engine is not. Typically, we should be cleaning the carbs every so often at which time replacing needles and needle seat o-rings is an easy job. Haven't ever encountered issues with diaphragms or butterfly shaft seals due to ethanol though, not to say it isn't outside the realm of possibility though.

My feeling is rusty tanks happen with neglect of the fuel system, ethanol won't lead to a rusty tank in and of itself in a properly cared for fuel system, IMO.

Which brings up another question... If a guy uses high test to avoid ethanol, is he trading one headache for another?

Would be my thoughts also. AS far as Greg's input........well, would have to agree. I sure as heck not planning a LD ride based on fuel types available along the way. If tuned properly, these ole' elevens will burn fine with whatever the option is at the fuel stop.

[aquamantx]

I have found with most of my carburetor engines is if you must run the ethenol fuel then you must run the engine often. No problems with fuel usage only when it sits for a period of time. Must best luck has been sitting for less than a month.

[motoman]

Originally Posted by aquamantx

I have found with most of my carburetor engines is if you must run the ethenol fuel then you must run the engine often. No problems with fuel usage only when it sits for a period of time. Must best luck has been sitting for less than a month.

My Venturer sits for a yr. or more at a time.............no starting or running issues using Star-Tron enzyme treatent.

[motoman]

Originally Posted by TopCatGr58

Hey Tom,

It's been a long time since I rebuilt my 81 in 2000. I rode it in essentially OEM configuration from '83 to 92, some estimated 50k miles...estimated because my actual odometer broke at ~970 miles, just used the tripometer for fuel fillups. I remember reading it requiring 92 octane, and therefore used Premium. I grew up when octanes were 100+ before they took the lead out. I didn't realize that they had recalculated how they determined the octane levels.

When I rebuilt my bike in 2000 after a 8 year corrosive nap outdoors , I put in new pistons due to rust exposure of the cylinders, and this site wasn't up and running then so I didn't know that I possibly could have reconditioned the cylinders instead of boring it out. But I did, putting in the 1179cc kit. And since it was supposed to boost the compression to around 10.5:1 I opted to continue running premium for fear of burning holes in my new pistons. My valves were in decent shape, only required a lapping to get them to seal well, and just installed new oil seals with the head work. I vaguely remember using a wire brush on a drill to scrub off some of the carbon from the valve shafts...but it didn't seem like there was much there.

I have just recently dropped my fuel choice down to the medium grade. Part of my concerns were that with both the slightly louder exhausts, and full face helmet, earplugs, that it would be difficult for me to be able to hear the pinging of preignition/knocking. I've been told that unless I was running compressions in the 11+ range, that higher octanes are needed to prevent preignition/knocking. I may eventually go to regular, but will have to ensure that I run it locally WITHOUT earplugs so that I can check/listen to make sure I'm not hearing any pinging before I can feel confident in continuing to run the regular stuff!

Octane S-L-O-W-S down the speed that the fuel burns, so helps keep a single flame front explosion wave that pushes the piston down evenly. Too low octane causes the fuel/air mixture to ignite in more than one location within the combustion chamber due to a variety of factors...but this creates multiple flame fronts that then push down on the piston in different places which can cause it to rock/knock side to side.

Oil is going to burn slower that gasoline, and so I would expect putting MMO in the fuel would increase the octane, not lower it. Too low of octane is more likely to "blow" your engine with preignition, and possibly burning holes in pistons compared to premium.

I'm not too worried about the affects of E-10, but if I were to get 100 % pure gasoline, I wouldn't worry too much about it being premium. And IF you have updated your ignition with newer coils, then you're getting a much stronger spark than the early 78-80 1.5 ohm coils ever could provide. And if you run the bike in the lower rpms, then you're giving it more time per cycle to burn more completely than if you are running in the 7k range.

T.C.

ANY oil added to fuel(preferably 2-stroke oil mix) raises octane levels 3-6points, as you've stated T.C.