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Old 12-04-2015, 10:17 AM
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mwsxj1100j mwsxj1100j is offline
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Question Fuel E-15

What kind of fuel do you use in your bike? My XJ11 seems to run fine on the E-10 that is currently on the market. Now Obama's jack booted eco thugs wants us to start using E-15. I am very protective of my bike since it is the only bike I have and I cannot afford another machine. While I would never put E-15 in my tank what is going to happen when that's the only fuel available. I think that th 20w50 that I am running now is helping to protect my engine from the the extra heat now produced by the E-10 but I think that E-15 would destroy the engine since air cooled engines run hot enough as is, my bike did overheat this summer in 4th of July fireworks traffic. One last question if you are lucky enough to obtain fuel that contains no alcohol how does your bike run. As always thanks for the information.
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Old 12-04-2015, 11:27 AM
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In Oklahoma, we have a lot of stations that serve 0% ethanol, (100% gas) but that's what I generally find on trips. They say the ethanol isn't good on aluminum (Aloomineeum to you oversea-ers. ) but I haven't noticed any damage. though it seems most people I know are starting to get bad rubber slide diaphragms like it's not acting well with those. What I've noticed on trips is when I use 100% gas, I get just a little bit more power, but with the E10, I get a mile or two more per gallon. My bike is on the rich side and the E10 leans it up a bit.

I'm not sure if they are going to do away with the 10% and swap to the 15, or if the 10 will still be available. I know the American Motorcycle Association (Great thing to support if you can.. $45 a year and that gets you the magazine and roadside assistance that covers everyone in your family with every vehicle they drive or ride) has been fighting them in congress, as well as others. I think there's a lot of unhappy people about the E15 and not sure it's going to fly or not. It's bad for the environment, bad for the engines, and makes absolutely no sense... which means the government will think it's an awesome idea...

What I'd like to know is... what is "Gas" these days? When I was younger, we used to use it as a parts cleaner with no funky smell. Wash your hands and all better. Now, you get a drop on you and you get to smell that crap for the whole day no matter how much you wash.
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Last edited by trbig; 12-04-2015 at 11:29 AM.
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  #3  
Old 12-04-2015, 12:54 PM
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Agree on all counts that E15 is a horrible idea. And that E10 is with us for the forseeable future. What I don't necessarily understand is that E10 makes an engine run hotter to an extent that would make a practical difference in engine temp.

The following comes from a report on ethanol properties. Ethanol contains 35% oxygen. 10% ethanol by volume equates to 3.7% oxygen in gasoline by weight.

Theoretically it will run a tad leaner because it brings more oxygen to the equation albeit in a small dose. I turn out the fuel screws (pilot screws) in the colder seasons of the year to offset the denser cold air. Same thing would help to offset any lean condition that affects the running of the bike.

trbig- I would expect mileage to improve with E10 if it is leaning out from slightly rich when running straight gas. Lean typically yields better mpg...

Overall, if you can't notice any difference in driveability (pronounced lean condition) then temps shouldn't be up enough to matter. Doesn't mean they aren't up some amount, but I wouldn't sweat it to the extent that 20w-50 will do anything that 15w-40 or similar oil won't in terms of protecting the engine.

In any case, 20w-50 is a great choice for these bikes regardless of fuel being used!
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Last edited by Bonz; 12-04-2015 at 12:58 PM.
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Old 12-04-2015, 02:00 PM
aquamantx aquamantx is offline
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A couple of issues of today's fuel. Ethanol draws moisture from the air so you can get more water in your fuel. The lack of lead increases the friction in the older engines. The seals and seats were not designed to handle ethenol. It uses a food source to create it. Finally if I believe my engineering friends it uses more energy to produce than it offers as a fuel.

Humm good thing we have common core to make the numbers work out.
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Old 12-04-2015, 05:29 PM
tomcos67 tomcos67 is offline
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Well we are lucky in upstate n.y...every steward coffee shop gas station,,, high test only is ethanol free ....So owned bike for two years only.Ethanol free only,,,high test,with a Splash of Marvel Mystery Oil.I use Marvel in everything I put gas in.Especially in small engines when using ethonal gas.
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Old 12-05-2015, 03:16 PM
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You can make ethanol free gasoline from E10 or E15. Mix it with water. The alcohol will combine with the water. Once is all separates, you remove the water that has settled to the bottom. You will lose octane as ethanol raises the octane number. Easy peezy, right?

My bike runs just fine on E10. I can't even tell the difference. I just don't want that crap in my tank if I can avoid it. E10 is where rusty tanks come from. It's probably no good for carburetor diaphragms and butterfly shaft seals.
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Old 12-05-2015, 03:17 PM
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Question for the collective. Running high-test in the XS has been proven to carbon up exhaust valves long-term, leading to burnt valves and lower power output all things equal because the XS isn't designed to need high octane gas. However, ethanol shortens the life of rubber fuel system parts depending on how well the owner keeps additives in the fuel to offset ethanol.

I would be hesitant to do ethanol free high test because carb parts are replaceable and an engine is not. Typically, we should be cleaning the carbs every so often at which time replacing needles and needle seat o-rings is an easy job. Haven't ever encountered issues with diaphragms or butterfly shaft seals due to ethanol though, not to say it isn't outside the realm of possibility though.

My feeling is rusty tanks happen with neglect of the fuel system, ethanol won't lead to a rusty tank in and of itself in a properly cared for fuel system, IMO.

Which brings up another question... If a guy uses high test to avoid ethanol, is he trading one headache for another?
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Last edited by Bonz; 12-05-2015 at 03:21 PM.
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  #8  
Old 12-05-2015, 03:25 PM
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jetmechmarty jetmechmarty is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonz View Post
If a guy uses high test to avoid ethanol, is he trading one headache for another?
Fortunately, I have access to 87 octane E0.
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  #9  
Old 12-05-2015, 03:59 PM
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Unfortunately E10 is reality and E15 is on the way. On the road you haven't a choice.

Preparing your bike for what's available is a much better solution than bitching about the inevitable.

My bike is tuned for what's readily available.
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  #10  
Old 12-05-2015, 05:01 PM
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2 years ago there were no E0 stations where I live a year ago there was 1 E0 station and now there are E0 stations all over. And they are being used wide spread and often a line waiting when E10 pumps are open and is often 15 to 20 cents less per gallon. I do not live in a rich area in fact you could commonly call 70 percent of the population hillbillies so if we are smart enough to know there are issues with E10 / E15 then why are so many confused . E10 is crap and E15 is bigger crap and if you believe it is really good for the enviroment then you can keep your doctor too. Just remember you actually pay more for E10 gas because the government actually takes your taxes and pays subsidies for renewable fuel.
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  #11  
Old 12-05-2015, 05:29 PM
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down here in NC we have nearly 600 ethanol free gas stations statewide...wherever I go my routes will take me to ethanol free stations...Cross country it can be done too although it depends on what state and if you are riding backroads or interstates...there are websites that list each state and location for ethanol free gas...one can plan their routes accordingly... now as far as performance and fuel mileage...my experience has been that ethanol free burns hotter thus more power and better fuel efficiency translates to better fuel mileage as well...YMMV
This is what i use to find and route my rides...
http://pure-gas.org/?stateprov=NC
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Last edited by madmax-im; 12-05-2015 at 05:33 PM.
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Old 12-05-2015, 06:08 PM
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I ride for my enjoyment, not to see gas stations. My routes take me where I want to go.
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Greg

Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”

― Albert Einstein

80 SG Ol' Okie;79 engine & carbs w/pods, 45 pilots, 140 mains, Custom Mac 4 into 2 exhaust, ACCT,XS850 final drive,110/90/19 front tire,TKat fork brace, XS750 140 MPH speedometer, Vetter IV fairing, aftermarket hard bags and trunk, LG high back seat, XJ rear shocks.

The list changes.
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  #13  
Old 12-05-2015, 07:59 PM
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TopCatGr58 TopCatGr58 is offline
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From the website asphaltandrubber.com

Just a little blurb that you all might find interesting.

Quote:
As you may know, the Act lead the introduction of E10 (gasoline with 10% ethanol), which vehicle owners have been claiming causes serious damage to engines, such as damaged catalytic converters, improper combustion, and component deterioration.

While proponents of ethanol claim that it is a cleaner burning, higher octane fuel source that is renewable, opponents feel that the mixture of gasoline and ethanol is causing more problems than it is solving. This week marks a victory for the latter camp, as the EPA has now publicly confirmed that ethanol does cause serious damage the engines.

The announcement comes in the form of a new rule proposal set forth by the Federal Trade Commission which would require a label on gas pumps supplying high ethanol content blends such as E15.

According to the EPA, ethanol impacts motor vehicles in two primary ways. First … ethanol leans the [air/fuel] ratio (increases the proportion of oxygen relative to hydrocarbons) which can lead to increased exhaust gas temperatures and potentially increase incremental deterioration of emission control hardware and performance over time, possibly causing catalyst failure.

Second, ethanol can cause materials compatibility issues, which may lead to other component failures. What material compatibility issues would they be referring to? Ethanol has been known to wreak havoc on fuel systems, deteriorating plastic and silicone components such as hoses, fuel pumps and filters, gas tanks, and fuel injectors.

Among its other talents, ethanol also has the ability to etch aluminum and magnesium, as well as absorb moisture from the air, allowing a water/alcohol mixture in the fuel tank.


The American Motorcycle Association has been actively fighting the distribution of E15 and applauds the EPA’s decision to reassess the further distribution of E15.

AMA Vice President for Government Relations, Wayne Allard said “now the EPA acknowledges that ethanol itself is harmful to emissions hardware and other components on all motor vehicles. It is time for the federal government to pause, take a hard look at this product and change its entire approach to ethanol in fuels.”

While this is a step in the right direction to curb the use of E15, there are still many vehicles, both on and off-road, using E10 which, while not as dangerous, is still causing problems.
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  #14  
Old 12-06-2015, 02:50 AM
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madmax-im madmax-im is offline
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Greg I enjoy my rides too...the ethanol gas stations are along my routes...one just has to know where they are...which is usually off the interstates...so I refute your notion i am just riding from one gas station to another as my primary goal...it amounts to finding the stations that are along my way rather than go out of my way...well maybe a little...
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Last edited by madmax-im; 12-06-2015 at 02:59 AM.
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  #15  
Old 12-06-2015, 10:06 AM
tomcos67 tomcos67 is offline
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high test

Bonz.Thanks for post. I've read before where xs doesn't need high test.So my thinking is adding the Marvel Mystery oil ,it should knock down that octane abit to offset .Wishful thinking...probably. My luck the bike will blow up.?.
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