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  #16  
Old 12-06-2015, 07:30 PM
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TopCatGr58 TopCatGr58 is offline
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Hey Tom,

It's been a long time since I rebuilt my 81 in 2000. I rode it in essentially OEM configuration from '83 to 92, some estimated 50k miles...estimated because my actual odometer broke at ~970 miles, just used the tripometer for fuel fillups. I remember reading it requiring 92 octane, and therefore used Premium. I grew up when octanes were 100+ before they took the lead out. I didn't realize that they had recalculated how they determined the octane levels.

When I rebuilt my bike in 2000 after a 8 year corrosive nap outdoors , I put in new pistons due to rust exposure of the cylinders, and this site wasn't up and running then so I didn't know that I possibly could have reconditioned the cylinders instead of boring it out. But I did, putting in the 1179cc kit. And since it was supposed to boost the compression to around 10.5:1 I opted to continue running premium for fear of burning holes in my new pistons. My valves were in decent shape, only required a lapping to get them to seal well, and just installed new oil seals with the head work. I vaguely remember using a wire brush on a drill to scrub off some of the carbon from the valve shafts...but it didn't seem like there was much there.

I have just recently dropped my fuel choice down to the medium grade. Part of my concerns were that with both the slightly louder exhausts, and full face helmet, earplugs, that it would be difficult for me to be able to hear the pinging of preignition/knocking. I've been told that unless I was running compressions in the 11+ range, that higher octanes are needed to prevent preignition/knocking. I may eventually go to regular, but will have to ensure that I run it locally WITHOUT earplugs so that I can check/listen to make sure I'm not hearing any pinging before I can feel confident in continuing to run the regular stuff!

Octane S-L-O-W-S down the speed that the fuel burns, so helps keep a single flame front explosion wave that pushes the piston down evenly. Too low octane causes the fuel/air mixture to ignite in more than one location within the combustion chamber due to a variety of factors...but this creates multiple flame fronts that then push down on the piston in different places which can cause it to rock/knock side to side.

Oil is going to burn slower that gasoline, and so I would expect putting MMO in the fuel would increase the octane, not lower it. Too low of octane is more likely to "blow" your engine with preignition, and possibly burning holes in pistons compared to premium.

I'm not too worried about the affects of E-10, but if I were to get 100 % pure gasoline, I wouldn't worry too much about it being premium. And IF you have updated your ignition with newer coils, then you're getting a much stronger spark than the early 78-80 1.5 ohm coils ever could provide. And if you run the bike in the lower rpms, then you're giving it more time per cycle to burn more completely than if you are running in the 7k range.

T.C.
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  #17  
Old 12-08-2015, 09:31 PM
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TC, I have the same kit as you and I have run into places going cross country that only had 85 octane, and the bike has never knocked or pinged on that either, but I try to run at least the 87 stuff.
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  #18  
Old 12-09-2015, 06:54 AM
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85 octane is sold at higher elevations, where there isn't as much oxygen in the air. You don't need as much octane when you don't have as much oxygen, that's why it doesn't ping probably would be a problem if you ran that gas at lower elevation though.
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  #19  
Old 12-09-2015, 09:19 AM
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This is the latest I have seen

on the subject of increasing ethanol use in our fuels. At least in the USA.

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/1...asoline-216270

Who knows with the way things are trending right now we may actually see more stations with ethanol free gas. At least I hope that is what this signifies.
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  #20  
Old 12-09-2015, 12:20 PM
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In general forum chatter, here and other places, I am hearing a lot more about ethanol free being an option in premium gas. That along with the info in the link cajun31 shared show some progress. I suspect premium is being chosen for this since it is probably the lesser used fuel relative to regular and mid-grade. Thus the lessened amount of ethanol being produced might fit nicely with leaving premium gas unadulterated. Just a thought.
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  #21  
Old 12-09-2015, 12:25 PM
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My bike HATES premium. I feel a significant power loss with it.
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  #22  
Old 12-09-2015, 01:16 PM
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theres no lack of ethanol free in 87 octane here in NC...in fact many stations have all grades ethanol free and then some stations only have Premium ethanol free...
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  #23  
Old 12-12-2015, 07:43 PM
mro mro is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cajun31 View Post
on the subject of increasing ethanol use in our fuels. At least in the USA.

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/1...asoline-216270

Who knows with the way things are trending right now we may actually see more stations with ethanol free gas. At least I hope that is what this signifies.
Or you could move to CA and have NO options but ethanol.
(official state "regulations" from CARB does not require ethanol but does mandate an oxygen additive that seems to be only available using ethanol)
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  #24  
Old 12-12-2015, 09:50 PM
motoman motoman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomcos67 View Post
Bonz.Thanks for post. I've read before where xs doesn't need high test.So my thinking is adding the Marvel Mystery oil ,it should knock down that octane abit to offset .Wishful thinking...probably. My luck the bike will blow up.?.
Actually, a smijjin of petroleum base or oil(two strole mixing oil) raises the octane level 2to4 steps.
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  #25  
Old 12-29-2015, 12:27 AM
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Big Money

Quote:
Originally Posted by TopCatGr58 View Post
Just a little blurb that you all might find interesting.
Great post TC, It cost more to make the stuff then it does to refine gas? Why then are they shoving it down our throat's? The money makers decide who gets rich and who gets screwed The same with wind VS coal, you will all see that in your electric bills soon enough. The stuff you have to put in your XS tank will take many miles before it ruins all you rubber parts, but it will, 10% or 15% or whatever they make you buy next. But it looks like we will all just sit back and do as we are told by wealth makers and hope for the best. After all, they don't own anything old enough to have fuel problems, do they?
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  #26  
Old 12-29-2015, 02:55 AM
motoman motoman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BA80 View Post
My bike HATES premium. I feel a significant power loss with it.
+1.......ignites to early.......these ole' 11's will dern near run on kerosene.
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  #27  
Old 01-01-2016, 06:44 PM
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Ignites early

Quote:
Originally Posted by motoman View Post
+1.......ignites to early.......these ole' 11's will dern near run on kerosene.
Not trying to start a fight about gas, but prem. gas ignites slower, the higher the octane the closer to kerosene it is
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  #28  
Old 01-01-2016, 07:23 PM
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Octane

It is true that you may get more power from lower octane gas in lower compression motors as it is a more explosive fuel. the need for higher octane fuel is to eliminate "pre detonation" or ping as it is called. The higher octane fuel is less volatile and thus works best in high compression motors, most seem to get good results on the 11's with mid to low grade, so save some bucks and enjoy the ride if that is you
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1979 XS1100 Special (Mad Max, OEM) Current
1980 XS1100 Special
1990 V Max
1982 KZ750 LTD Twin
1986 700 FZR Yamaha Fazer (faster then expected)
1979 XS750 Special (my 1st Special)
1974 CB750-Four



Past/pres Car's
1961 Catalina 389/1970 Torino GT 351/1967GTO 12to1 comp./ Roller cam/ T-10/ 456 gear/Tri-power/1967 GTO 400, 1969 Camaro, 1968 Z28, 2001 BMW M Roadster 0 to 60 in 4.5 sec. Jaguar XK8
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  #29  
Old 01-02-2016, 12:05 PM
crazy steve crazy steve is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XS1100_OEM4ME View Post
Great post TC, It cost more to make the stuff then it does to refine gas? Why then are they shoving it down our throat's? The money makers decide who gets rich and who gets screwed
You can blame this on all the politicians. Some of the clean air freaks like it because it does burn cleaner and is 'renewable'. Big agribusiness likes it because with the subsidies, there's plenty of money to be made, and use much the same arguments as the clean air freaks to promote it.

It's interesting to note that many of the smarter ecology groups oppose the use of ethanol as a motor fuel for various reasons, but we won't like their proposed solutions either...
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  #30  
Old 01-09-2016, 08:49 PM
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Good read.

Can E15 Gasoline Really Damage Your Engine?

It's in Popular Mechanics.
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